POI 3x09

[arduinna]

I've seen a few people's reactions, but not that many; I'm on vacation trying to hermit out and be peaceful and calm and rested, and watching people be angry/unhappy isn't helping me stop be angry/unhappy about this. But neither is stewing on my own. And so I vent.

I was completely flummoxed by the sudden "oh Joss I love you so" coming out of nowhere; I'm sorry, but seriously, that level of sudden declaration was never telegraphed at ALL. Reese never showed a flicker of jealousy about Beecher (concern, sure -- just like Fusco and Finch were concerned. But not jealousy.) He's never made a single move -- which, hi, the lesson he learned from losing Jessica was "keeping my mouth shut about how I felt was the biggest mistake of my life". There is absolutely no reason Reese would have kept silent and inscrutable about feeling like he literally owes his continued existence to Carter.

Especially since that retcons not only the pilot, but the entire series to date. Carter didn't change Reese's life; Finch did. Reese has repeated that nonstop for 2.25 seasons now: he says it to Finch, he says it to old friends, he says it to enemies, he says it to random strangers on the street he happens to be walking past, all of which Finch hears directly. Finch has known exactly how much he means to John pretty much all along; he knows he's the one who let John reach a place where he could actually say, out loud, "I guess I'm happy" with that little smile that said he meant it.

Carter became a huge part of that changed life, but she wasn't the reason he crawled out of his bottle and started living again. Finch gave him a job, gave him a purpose, gave him trust back again. Finch made it possible for Reese to become friends with other people, including Carter.

This has been the entire premise of the show! From day one!

*HANDS*

So I had a very very confused few minutes of "well, at least the Reese/Carter shippers will be happy, but... what? Why did this show suddenly need a giant blazing canonical het ship, instead of the team of friends/comrades/compatriots that's been working so well?" and then UH, NO, I suspect the Reese/Carter shippers are NOT HAPPY AT ALL.

That moment in the morgue should have been a mutual "it's been an honor" speech. Carter and Reese connected first and most strongly on their shared military background, and they've always been comrades in arms. It would have been an even more powerful moment, in fact, because hey, I could have actually believed it and had an emotional response to it, instead of sitting there going "what? what is he saying? wait, why is that a romantic hand on her cheek? WHAT?"

And y'know, if Carter really had to die (why! why would Carter need to die!!!) avenging a fallen comrade? Would actually be just as good a motivator for Reese as "oh no, the woman I have sekritly loved for two years has died, right after I told her I love her out of nowhere". Better, even, since once again, it would be a motivation I could believe.

It's such lazy, stupid fucking writing, the way they did it -- and this is not a show where I'm automatically braced to cope with the stupid, lazy writing. It instantly diminishes everything Carter did during her season of awesome, because sure, maybe she got 98% of HR, but Reese, man. Reese is going to get the badass that got Carter. And I love Reese! I love it when he wins! But this is Carter's win, goddammit! She worked her ass off for this, and made a clean bust, like the cop she is. And now all that work is "oh well, she tried, but she just wasn't good enough." And at the same time, they've managed to diminish John, whose emotional depths apparently no longer encompass strong friendships. He can only truly care about the women he's in love with. Which is contrary to everything we've learned about him so far, as he's developed friendships (and even one that hey, possibly includes sex -- you can't tell me he wouldn't care what happens to Zoe, even if she didn't change his life and give him his only reason not to swallow a bullet. Argh.)

What the hell were they thinking?

And they were thinking, is the thing. They were so, so careful to slowly set up Taylor's safe existence with his now-good-citizen dad, and show how he was okay and well-adjusted there. Her death didn't leave her son in the lurch (or in any danger, the way Lee was in danger). Her city was safe; her son was safe; her ex was the good man she used to know; her boyfriend was avenged; her job was returned to her: all that was left for her to do was give John a reason to go on a berserker rage kick by dying.

*deep breath*

Okay, I'm still not calming down, so I'll stop, since all I'm doing is rehashing the same thing. But goddammit. I really liked 98% of this episode, a LOT. Fusco! I love, love, love when he gets to be the badass he always was; he may not be a leader, but he's one hell of a strong, loyal soldier. The only thing that matters more to him is Lee, and even there, he did what he could to buy time for the cavalry (and for his thumb-breaking to work, which I thought was thumb-dislocating from the way he was moving his hands whenever he could). Shaw! Who waited for orders, then made the right emotional call, and had an actual moment with Fusco! They are weirdly turning into a great little team, and I think his ability to break himself out (and throttle someone with all those broken fingers) has done a lot to win her respect (and her call to save Lee instead of Lionel has won his). Root and Finch! (which, hey, there are the writers I know and trust, building a thing where it's less certain that Finch is doing the right thing -- although omg, Finch, you don't lock someone in a cage and walk away with a blithe "I may never be back, but here, have a muffin").

But that last 2% outweighs it all. DAMMIT.

I don't even know what to do next week. I love this show. This is my fandom in a way nothing else has been my fandom in years - maybe not since SG-1, or even Sentinel. I trusted these writers, these showrunners.

I don't want to lose my show, and I'll probably keep watching, and just somehow find a way to make it work. But part of me really, really wants the ratings to just fucking TANK. Because this is not the show that anyone signed on for.

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

I am so very sorry.

[quarter_to_five]

Yes! Everything you said. It's such a reduction, of all of them. It reduces Carter (duh,) but it also reduces Reese and it reduces Finch and it reduces the complexity of the show and the complexity of the characters and the relationships they can have and the emotions they can have and it's annoying as all hell. The cowardice of it!

[arduinna]

Seriously, the reduction of everything for one cheap, easy, lazy bit of emotional "depth" (which, argh, you know that's what they think it is) -- it's so frustrating and annoying. I used to be able to tell people that this was a show that paid attention to relationships, that was about subtlety and continuity and slow, realistic changes in how people related to each other.

At least I can still tell people to watch the first two seasons, but man. I never, ever thought this would be a show I'd have to say that about.

[hedda62]

Absolutely, all of this (and I have been reading people's comments all day, and it's… nice that we all agree? Except we all agree it sucks). Just GRRR.

Finch, you don't lock someone in a cage and walk away with a blithe "I may never be back, but here, have a muffin"

Ha! Quite. I suppose he may have thought the Machine would sort it out if he was killed. And it's the Root and Finch story I'll be hanging on for, but I can't hold out much hope for course adjustment that holds. Sigh.

[arduinna]

I'm often not on the same page as everyone else in moments like this, because if I'm really invested in a show, I cut it a ton of slack, but -- yeah. I don't see any other page it's possible to be on, with this. (Well, unless someone's only in it for Fusco or Shaw; this was a 100% awesome ep for them.)

I suppose he may have thought the Machine would sort it out if he was killed.

That was my first thought, but he specifically set the cage up so the Machine couldn't affect it. OTOH, thinking about it more rationally later, the odds that he, Reese, and Shaw would all die are pretty slim, and he always has Leon as a backup. So I'm sure there was a plan. *g* I just get very twitchy when I see people locked up in any way without someone there with them -- what if there's a fire!

I'll keep watching, at least for now. I'm seriously hoping that Berserker Bereft John only lasts for one episode and that they just put this whole goddamn storyline to bed -- I don't want anyone to forget Carter, but if the rest of the season turns into a vengeance tale it's going to be tough to take. I'm just gonna hope that they can get back on track; the Root and Finch story really should be taking more center stage now.

Sigh, indeed.

[starfish]

ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID WAS TRUE. TONIGHT I MUST USE THE ALLCAPS OF OUTRAGE.

Seriously, though, the depths of my disappointment are immeasurable. See icon.

[arduinna]

Icon wholly appropriate, sadly. Bah.

(I had to dredge up my finger-spelling memories! Which I should do more often.)

[sholio]

*huuuuugs* I have been feeling so bad for the POI fandom today! I know what it's like to have a show suddenly pull the rug out from under you. Stupid show-writing people. >:|

(If it hadn't been for that 2%, I'd have been really tempted to watch this episode on the basis of everything else I'm hearing about it -- I haven't been watching this season, but ♥ FUSCO! ♥ But ... just knowing about that other thing is bad enough; I don't think I can bear to watch it, and I feel so bad for everyone who went through it in realtime.)

[arduinna]

You left me a comment a week ago saying that White Collar was your happy-place show that you'll let off the hook for pretty much anything, and I had the tab open for days meaning to respond saying that POI is was my version of that this go-round. Sigh.

It's not my first time at this rodeo, but damn. I was just so unprepared; I know other people were unhappy with the season so far, but I'd been riding it out, enjoying it for what it was. Bah. Humbug!

(Honestly, the Fusco bits are fabulous, if you do decide to watch. He's as Fusco as a Fusco could be, from totally engaged good-dad to totally stubborn, self-aware badass. ♥ ♥ Just... skip anything with Carter and Reese after they reach the morgue, and turn it off after Fusco's final scene with Shaw.)

[thevetia]

Yes, my reactions exactly, right down to the "What? What is he saying? What are they doing? WHAT?" followed by "WAIT!" pausing the TiVo and yelling at the TV "I don't believe it!"

For me too, PoI has been my fandom like nothing since SG-1. I was talking to klia and saying how I feel that I've had my favorite banquet food yanked away and transformed into crawly mealworms. I need to find a mental place where I can deal with this betrayal of trust, because I still love the story of PoI, I still love Finch (now apparently with unrequited care for Reese!) and Reese and Fusco and the Machine and Root and that whole world, including Carter.

So if you find a way to do that, could you let me know?

[dorinda]

Yeah, testify, you guys. {{{group hug}}}

For what it's worth, there could still be a mental place to get to where there are good tidbits and pleasures to be had. Especially once we've had some time to step away and calm down (which I plan to be doing for a while; giving the show a time-out and letting it stack on the hard drive for a bit while I put ice on this burn).

Especially since, given that the writers are obviously not thoroughly dialed-in to the narrative ramifications of their decisions, they very well might not write future episodes as if previous characterizations and events have been invalidated. So their laziness might also have a silver lining. *g*

[klia]

they very well might not write future episodes as if previous characterizations and events have been invalidated. So their laziness might also have a silver lining.

For me, this was such an epic fucking misstep that I'm now at the "stove hot" stage, where I don't even want to watch the next ep for fear of something even more horrifying, like Reese wailing his everlasting love for Carter in front of the rest of the team, the whole NYPD, and all of fucking Manhattan. I just... I *hate* that I don't trust them anymore.

[quarter_to_five]

Pretty much this - I just don't *trust* the show now. Is the next bit of character development going to be just so you can kill them off too? Will Fusco now become more prominent as their only NYPD tie, and then retire to Hawaii? Will Finch throw himself into helping John cope and then reveal that he's just covering up his pain, because he was sekretly in love with her too?

[thevetia]

Thank you! Yes! That is indeed the only silver lining I can imagine so far.

[arduinna]

they very well might not write future episodes as if previous characterizations and events have been invalidated.

I'm kind of expecting that, honestly -- which will make it easier to watch because it will be back to what I want, but otoh will be maddening because continuity, dammit! It's not continuity I *want*, but it's there now, and I'll be bullshit if they just sort of... spackle over Carter's absence.

Although who knows; I don't really see how they can get 2/3 of a season out of John's reaction to this, but maybe that's what they're going for. *hands*

I don't know if I can step away right away, although wow do I not want to actually watch this next episode. I'm not sure I can not-watch and then later come back, though; I may need to ride it out and see what happens, and either recover or just get bitter.

(If I get bitter, tell me to stop watching! I don't want to hit a point where I'm starting to sour on the first two seasons, which all my anger and unhappiness aside were still two amazing seasons of wonderful old-school-slash tv.)

[dorinda]

(If I get bitter, tell me to stop watching! I don't want to hit a point where I'm starting to sour on the first two seasons, which all my anger and unhappiness aside were still two amazing seasons of wonderful old-school-slash tv.)

I do so swear! I will solemnly slap you across the phiz and snap you out of it, like in that scene in the movie Airplane when everybody's lined up to hit the person having hysterics. :D

No, no, I'd never hit ya. Maybe I should just kidnap you and tie you up and subject you to vigorous deprogramming!

(...you love being my friend, don'tcha.)

And yeah, I mean, that's part of what my break now is about. The first two seasons are amazing and rich and deliver exactly what I want. So I'm currently kind of...walling them off in my mind, like they are their own two-season unified object. Developments since then are optional. (I just can't let horrible decisions on the part of the actors and showrunners take my favorite things away from me. HANDS OFF, PIPSQUEAKS.)

[arduinna]

Yeah, that's the thing -- I still love this show! I don't want to lose that. So I dunno; I'll see how it goes.

I'm batting about .500 on beloved shows that have pulled something completely game-changing, in terms of being able to stick with them. So at least I know it's possible for me to find a way to deal -- and this time around, if it turns out it's *not* possible, I'm bailing faster than I have in the past, so I don't find myself unwilling to look at the earlier bits I still love.

But if at all possible, I'm going in with the hope and intention of being able to still love it; if come Tuesday I'm sitting there waiting for them to make me miserable, I'll probably try to bank it till I've got distance, like dorinda, and just hope that that isn't enough of a mental break to cut me off from it completely.

[klia]

thevetia and I ranted at each other about most of this today -- twice, in fact -- and I'm totally with you about everything. I loved so much of the ep, and then they did... that. I mean, I don't think I hallucinated 2-1/2 seasons of Reese and Finch doing anything to help and/or save each other, right? No wonder I feel blindsided. JFC, we could sue for whiplash.

So, so angry and upset. GAH. I think the last time I was this upset about something a show did was probably the ending of Life on Mars. I know a lot of people liked it, but I thought it was a cheap and easy wrap-up, and it made me feel like... well, like Loki after Hulk smashed him.

[arduinna]

This is actually managing to combine Divide and Conquer from SG-1 with third season of Due South for me. The one thing working in its favor is I don't think anyone in our end of fandom is going to be insisting that people see what an awesome good choice this was, no really, why are you people so upset?

So I'll see how it goes, and how this affects Finch and Reese's relationship going forward, and whether I can deal with that. But man. Just. ugh.

[copracat]

I read an article (in EW?) where Henson said that Caviezel improvised the kiss and it was decided to leave it in. It looked like it came out of left field because it came out of Caviezel's head.

[arduinna]

Oh, god. Well, that does help explain the complete wtfery of it, at least, but gah that they kept it in. (ALthough gah that they kept ANY of it in!)

[dorinda]

You know, hearing that actually helps me in my quest to wall it off and not take it seriously. Actors can be the absolute worst at hitting the right/best notes for their own characters, not to mention for the narrative as a larger entity. Paradoxical, but true. And they can't force me to embrace some wrongheaded improv if I refuse to.

(What's that knocking on the door? OH NO IT IS THE CANON POLICE...)

[aprilvalentine]

Here by way of Natlyn...

I don't even know what to do next week. I love this show. This is my fandom in a way nothing else has been my fandom in years - maybe not since SG-1, or even Sentinel. I trusted these writers, these showrunners.

This is me just exactly. Never been in SG-1, but this show has grabbed me more than Sentinel or anything in years. I was into Torchwood, but couldn't trust those showrunners, who killed Ianto after telling fans we'd "love the direction they were taking the Ianto/Jack relationship" (and when we complained, he told us to just watch another show if we were sad. Thanks. I will.) I have been, like so many of us, all week, just going back and forth from outrage to despair. It's not even the kiss that had me upset (which if you don't know, JC threw in adlib instead of it being scripted) or that Carter was killed the way she was -- TPTB and TPH are just as happy as clams that it was so wonderful, btw. weird, I know. But why make it all about "true luv"??? As you said, John told everyone it was Finch, even (I had to laugh at your phrasing) random people he passed on the street. That's what made me so furious -- to retcon the whole show this way. Good lord. They've downplayed Reese and Finch's friendship all season but I never truly expected this. It would have been so much better, more realistic, more believable and more in character for it to be comrades in arms saying, as you said, "it's been an honor" instead of the silly, weak, out of left field romantic crap. And the poor fans of the het ship, to be thrown that bone only to have it yanked away is worse. They had shown them as friends who respected each other -- why go there on this show??? And when they introduced her son's father with his PTSD issues, I thought there was another fundamental reason she would probably be telling herself never to get involved with Reese, respect him though she may have, she knew he could go off the deep end at any time. Why they just didn't have her go join the FBI after bringing down HR, I don't know. Sigh. TPH was always to be off the show before it ran its course, we have now learned, so why kill her? Why not allow her to reap the benefits of her success with bringing down HR? She could be off the show then and alive and we wouldn't all be going nuts like this. Thanks for your venting and allowing me some more of my own, lol.

[arduinna]

Wow, Hensen's happy about it? That... actually helps a little. Not in show terms, but outside the universe I've also been ragingly angry that this fantastic actress lost her job for this piece of trite bullshit so TPTB could feel "edgy".

Which still doesn't change the infuriatingness of the retcon, the fact that of course the black character died first, and the fact that of course the woman's death was all in aid of driving a man's story. arrrgh.

And when they introduced her son's father with his PTSD issues, I thought there was another fundamental reason she would probably be telling herself never to get involved with Reese, respect him though she may have, she knew he could go off the deep end at any time.

Oh, that would have been such a good call! (Although I think it's fair to say that he's been off the deep end all along; he's just swimming along with the rope Finch tossed him, heading steadily for shallower waters.)

She seriously should have joined the FBI. That would have been fantastic, and would have let them shift her to recurring instead of lead if that's what they really wanted (but whyyy, she is amazing!), with Finch and Reese having a solid source inside yet another law enforcement agency. Win all around!

And oh my god, the poor Reese/Carter fans! WTF, what a terrible thing to do to them!!

[aprilvalentine]

Wow, Hensen's happy about it? That... actually helps a little. Not in show terms, but outside the universe I've also been ragingly angry that this fantastic actress lost her job for this piece of trite bullshit so TPTB could feel "edgy".

Yes, she is. She's been going around doing interviews -- was even on Letterman Wednesday night -- and has said she feels Carter's story was finished, she had come full circle, had a beginning, middle and end and and that Taylor would have his father so he wouldn't be alone, yadda, yadda. Further, she has known since the very beginning that she was not to be part of POI for the full run of the show. Nolan got her to commit to it by telling her she wouldn't be locked in "for a seven year contract" and she felt that since she prefers doing feature films, that would be a way to do television without the long contract. Without anyone else knowing this, she has been aware all along but until about Valentine's didn't know exactly when Carter would go. She only told her mother and grandmother about Carter's upcoming death in the ep. She said on Letterman, "I felt like I was cheating on my lover!" that she was keeping this secret that she was not going to continue on the show.

So yes, this wonderful actress didn't lose her job, but it still doesn't justify the gaffs like the horrible retcon which could have been avoided by a little better writing in those scenes. If John had just said something like how he had never thanked her for the part she played in helping him turn around, instead of making it seem like when he'd been thanking Finch all this time he hadn't meant it.

Did you know the kiss wasn't scripted? (can't remember if this was mentioned in your post or comments) JC put that as an adlib? Nolan and Plageman at first didn't think it would work as they apparently saw the scene in the morgue as a comrades in arms thing (so why the shippy dialogue, I ask?) but when they saw it it was so organic they felt it worked. I saw it not as a romantic kiss myself, but only by squinting and trying to ignore the words coming out of Reese's mouth.

Apparently TPH will appear in Carter flashbacks -- though I fear to see them. What are they going to do, show us some dates she had with Reese before she died?

In the middle of the night last night (yes, this ep is still making me lose sleep!) I found a promo for next week. First I saw an extended preview of the "next week's episode" thing. Then, I found this whole little video with not only some clips from next week but comments by JC, ME, KC and Plageman talking about what's going to be happening. Don't know if you do spoilers or not or I'd elaborate. Sometimes I don't do spoilers, but this whole thing has got me combing the web trying to stave off shock. Part of me says there may at least be some good parts in The Devil's Share, in regard to Reese and Finch, but I fear there will be consequences to Reese losing his shit about Carter. Argh.

Like you, this fandom meant so damn much to me. I hadn't fallen this hard since Sentinel. I dabbled in a few others (and survived the horrid death of Ianto Jones in Torchwood -- fridged to give Jack, his canon lover more manpain) but seriously, I thought I could trust Nolan and Plageman and in fact, as more and more fans have been complaining about the addition of Shaw and Root and the end of last season and the start of this one, I've continued to advocate trusting them, but now... my faith is shot. They haven't come out and said, as Russell T. Davies of Torchwood said, "if you don't like what I did, watch another show" but seeing them think they did such a great job is almost as annoying.

I think of Sentinel, of Blair dead in that fountain and cancellation happening the next day. And us waiting for 9 months to get the show back and when it aired, the hue and cry in fandom when Jim kissed Alex right in front of Blair. Sentinel fandom survived but in today's fan world, I don't know about POI. The stakes are so much higher in POI, the writing so far above the usual network fare that seeing it deteriortate, with the writers still patting themselves on the back for their originality and adherence to continuity, make my stomach hurt. Only time will tell.