December meme: POI, Finch/Reese
Jan. 21st, 2014 09:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
arduinnaI have hit that point of not posting where posting is hard and I feel like I need to work and rework everything to make it good enough to put out there, which is ridiculous and yet. (Even more ridiculous, as I still have a couple December questions to answer, and at this point we're coming on for February...)
So this post has been written in three phases. I'm just going to post it as is, a little disjointedly, because trying to mesh it all into one thing that looks like I wrote it in one sitting will take me another month, and I'd rather have it up while last week's episode is still vaguely "new". ish.
So!
Forastolat: Talk to me about Harold/John! Especially Harold/John right now! (I totally want help with my own rowing.)
I'm writing I was writing this with half an hour to go before tonight's last week's episode (3x13), and may well rue this by the time it's over. But I've been thinking about the past few weeks, and how I'm making them work in my head, so.
This season is so much harder, argh. The first two seasons were so easy! They were exactly what I wanted in this show.
This season... well. I'll say up front -- well, first I'll say up front that this is going to be a mix of Doylist and Watsonian, because while my preference is Watsonian, sometimes ya gotta go Doylist to deal with a season like this one.
I think they made the right call, shaking things up this season. Too many series get stuck in their formulas and don't dare to change them, and that's great -- for three, maybe four seasons, and then it starts to get frustrating because no one ever moves forward. I loved that the first two seasons were full of so much forward motion, and I think that if they'd stalled that out it would have felt very great and comfortable for maybe a year but then I would have been wondering what happened.
I am honestly impressed that when they decided to branch out, they did so by bringing two hugely competent (and scary) women into the mix, instead of, say, adding Leon as a regular to lighten things up.
THAT SAID. I am just going to stay angry about Carter forever, probably. I wish they'd just sent her off to the FBI -- that would have been great! Or if she had to die (grr), that it had happened, you know. In the line of actual duty, being her badass self. Without the goddam stupid romantic moment with Reese that STILL makes no sense whatsoever.
So pretty much a big part of my rowing is ret-conning that moment mentally, and just erasing the romantic declarations, because they literally make no sense to me in the context of the show as we've seen it all this time. I just can't accept that John spent two years telling Harold (and everyone he met) that Harold saved him by giving him this job, that Harold changed his life, that Harold let him be happy for the first time in years, when in fact what he meant was "I met Carter and she changed my world".
I've been braced for the show to scuttle itself further -- and it's doing some stuff I don't like (Harold's backstory, wtf is that) -- but I appreciate that everyone has been mourning Carter and that it's not all about John's Giant Manpain Of Lost Love -- and that when he tried to kinda make it that, Fusco showed up, called him out, and whaled away on him in a parking lot, because hi, Fusco has every right to be angry and grieving, too, John.
I seriously am loving the Fusco bits, actually. ♥ Lionel ♥ He is so true to himself, even as he's managed to turn around 180 degrees.
I also kinda buy John's gigantic sulk. First I was glad of it because it got him offscreen for most of that early reaction time, honestly -- it let the focus move elsewhere, which wow, helped so much.
But also, just thinking about John, it makes sense. He wasn't as healed up as he'd thought, emotionally speaking; he was relatively stable, relatively happy, but it was all patched up with butterfly bandages that were holding things together, with the skin not fully recovered underneath. And I think he'd also started to believe in their invincibility, because they were on the Side Of Right. I mean, not literally invincible? God knows he got shot enough, and they all got hurt. But they all got better, too, and hey the good guys are supposed to win, even though he wasn't supposed to be naive enough to believe that anymore. But one reason the CIA broke him so badly is that he's not actually a sociopath, not like Shaw and Root; he learned to be one, but it was a hard lesson.
So he's going along, he's helping people, it's *working*, wow, they helped so many people. It felt good; he got to shoot bad guys, and help good guys, and teach a baby to go undercover in a great hat. He had a puppy to play with in the park, and safe places to cache his backup weapons. He had friends that were becoming his family, that he could actually *trust*. So he kept letting his guard down, a little more all the time.
But of these friends, Carter was the one who wasn't supposed to die. I mean, he'd have lost his mind if Harold died -- we've seen it, he goes laser-focused and does whatever he has to do to either find or avenge him. But he would understand *why* someone would go after Harold. And Fusco, well, he'd been a bad guy for a long time, he knows the score. (And he *does*. Seriously, I love him so much.) And Reese himself, well, he's done a lot of bad things, and no amount of atoning is going to make up for that.
But Carter stayed on the (mostly) clean side of things her whole life. She was one of the real good guys. So when she died in the alley, Reese's butterfly bandages all got ripped right off. Because it was a senseless death; it was one they should have been able to prevent (except they were being IDIOTS argh okay moving on). It was one *he* should have been able to prevent.
So there he is, with the fantasy he hadn't even realized he'd built up in his head all ripped away: there is no safety, they can't help everyone, good people die right in front of your eyes. And he goes back to where he was when Harold found him: hopeless, despairing, and really really angry. And he takes off to wallow in a giant pity party, refusing to acknowledge that anyone else's feelings really matter at all.
And that really kinda works for me. I think he'll pull out of it; I think he's made the first steps, thanks in large part to Fusco, with his wonderfully pissy "yeah that's right, tough guy, I'm two years sober thanks to YOU. You DO make a difference. Suck on THAT for a while, jackass!" (I love him SO MUCH); and then the cathartic throwdown where Fusco knew perfectly well he was going to get the crap beat out of him and that's okay, he knows how to take a beating, especially in a good cause; and then the bit in the jail where Fusco literally locked himself up with Reese to give him a good talking to, and then walked out when he was done because hah, of course Fusco wasn't locked up (so, so, SO MUCH LOVE).
Of course it would be Harold in danger that would pull Reese back, and I'm also okay with him still wallowing away and refusing to stay.
Okay, so at that point the ep had been airing for half an hour and I couldn't take it and had to go watch. So now I am caught up to 3x13 and will be talking about that, too.
Okay, now that one made me happy, especially the end. ♥ And it all still makes sense to me in terms of John's character, in particular -- but also I wanted to say that I completely respect Harold's respecting of John's decision, because of course he would. He manipulated John into joining up at first, but after that it was totally John's decision.
(And of course the Machine learns well, and basically pulls a Harold to get John back on board. ... er, no pun intended, sorry.)
It's still really hard for John to trust -- although really, his sudden thing about being angry at being shut out from the Machine is weird, but I can go with it as the thing he decided to funnel all his frustration and anger into.
I liked the flight attendant a lot (even though she probably should have called the pilot 15 minutes into this flight *handwave*), and I was cracking up at John's "... more whiskey. neat" as the answer to all life's little problems. It really was the perfect way to remind him that, y'know, he *likes* helping people, he's good at it, he doesn't want to be the guy walking around sticking people with coagulants on planes so they'll get blood clots and die. Even if he is still the guy who'll buzz a stun belt to get answers.
I also liked the quiet little implication that he and the attendant spent the night together having a good time; I really like that we never get absolute confirmation that John's having friendly sex with people, but that the notion is there, and it really does seem *friendly*, which is awesome.
But mostly I loved that scene at the end, with Finch being so careful not to breach John's boundaries and John leaning forward all damp-eyed and intense and wanting a suit to wear again. *happy sigh* And the look on Harold's face! <3 <3 Not to mention Harold openly inviting John to go visit an exhibit that reminds him of Grace, which. Good heavens.
It's a reset button of sorts, but one that works for me; they're back to working together, but on a much stronger, more equal footing now, not spying on each other but talking to each other. Harold's not just handing John suits; he's bringing him to his tailor so they can pick one out together.
And beyond that, it's fascinating that the Machine has decided that it doesn't need to go through Finch, but is perfectly prepared to manipulate the world to get one of its assets in the right place at the right time. (It's also clear that the Machine doesn't believe in resignations, which... could get dicey.)
Anyway. This is a little late to help with anyone else's rowing, since basically the show is solidly back on board with John and Harold being all about each other again.
And that's where I stopped typing last week; god only knows why I didn't hit "post". But since I didn't, I'll natter on a bit to add: the ret-conning of the romance is now really easy, because there's just been no mention of it, at all. Until or unless it gets brought back up, it is 100% easy to read all of John's reaction as a shattering of the careful scaffolding he'd built up and thought was made up of solid walls, and a spiral down into his old despair and hopelessness, at the loss of a dear friend and comrade. Especially since everyone else is telling him flat-out "you're not the only one who suffered a loss, here. Open your eyes, look around, this is a shared grief." So yay for that, and I will -- I *am* -- totally on board with that characterization.
(Although I feel really bad for the Carter/Reese shippers, because seriously show come ON. You hand them that, then yank it away, then go la la la and never mention it again? This is why it's almost always better that your ship never, ever become remotely canon, no matter what it is.)
I'm braced a little against the day they yank that rug back out from under my feet, but, y'know. With that last scene last week, the rowing is easing up, and I've put up a tiny little sail to catch the wind to help out...
The whole (retconned) thing works as a re-establishing of the relationship on a more even footing, for me. Finch and Reese aren't employer and employee anymore, they're partners who have consciously, deliberately chosen to work together as a team.
And hah, as a telling point, when I was writing up the first part of this, I wasn't feeling like I could use this icon, but now I totally can. <3
So this post has been written in three phases. I'm just going to post it as is, a little disjointedly, because trying to mesh it all into one thing that looks like I wrote it in one sitting will take me another month, and I'd rather have it up while last week's episode is still vaguely "new". ish.
So!
For
astolat: Talk to me about Harold/John! Especially Harold/John right now! (I totally want help with my own rowing.)This season is so much harder, argh. The first two seasons were so easy! They were exactly what I wanted in this show.
This season... well. I'll say up front -- well, first I'll say up front that this is going to be a mix of Doylist and Watsonian, because while my preference is Watsonian, sometimes ya gotta go Doylist to deal with a season like this one.
I think they made the right call, shaking things up this season. Too many series get stuck in their formulas and don't dare to change them, and that's great -- for three, maybe four seasons, and then it starts to get frustrating because no one ever moves forward. I loved that the first two seasons were full of so much forward motion, and I think that if they'd stalled that out it would have felt very great and comfortable for maybe a year but then I would have been wondering what happened.
I am honestly impressed that when they decided to branch out, they did so by bringing two hugely competent (and scary) women into the mix, instead of, say, adding Leon as a regular to lighten things up.
THAT SAID. I am just going to stay angry about Carter forever, probably. I wish they'd just sent her off to the FBI -- that would have been great! Or if she had to die (grr), that it had happened, you know. In the line of actual duty, being her badass self. Without the goddam stupid romantic moment with Reese that STILL makes no sense whatsoever.
So pretty much a big part of my rowing is ret-conning that moment mentally, and just erasing the romantic declarations, because they literally make no sense to me in the context of the show as we've seen it all this time. I just can't accept that John spent two years telling Harold (and everyone he met) that Harold saved him by giving him this job, that Harold changed his life, that Harold let him be happy for the first time in years, when in fact what he meant was "I met Carter and she changed my world".
I've been braced for the show to scuttle itself further -- and it's doing some stuff I don't like (Harold's backstory, wtf is that) -- but I appreciate that everyone has been mourning Carter and that it's not all about John's Giant Manpain Of Lost Love -- and that when he tried to kinda make it that, Fusco showed up, called him out, and whaled away on him in a parking lot, because hi, Fusco has every right to be angry and grieving, too, John.
I seriously am loving the Fusco bits, actually. ♥ Lionel ♥ He is so true to himself, even as he's managed to turn around 180 degrees.
I also kinda buy John's gigantic sulk. First I was glad of it because it got him offscreen for most of that early reaction time, honestly -- it let the focus move elsewhere, which wow, helped so much.
But also, just thinking about John, it makes sense. He wasn't as healed up as he'd thought, emotionally speaking; he was relatively stable, relatively happy, but it was all patched up with butterfly bandages that were holding things together, with the skin not fully recovered underneath. And I think he'd also started to believe in their invincibility, because they were on the Side Of Right. I mean, not literally invincible? God knows he got shot enough, and they all got hurt. But they all got better, too, and hey the good guys are supposed to win, even though he wasn't supposed to be naive enough to believe that anymore. But one reason the CIA broke him so badly is that he's not actually a sociopath, not like Shaw and Root; he learned to be one, but it was a hard lesson.
So he's going along, he's helping people, it's *working*, wow, they helped so many people. It felt good; he got to shoot bad guys, and help good guys, and teach a baby to go undercover in a great hat. He had a puppy to play with in the park, and safe places to cache his backup weapons. He had friends that were becoming his family, that he could actually *trust*. So he kept letting his guard down, a little more all the time.
But of these friends, Carter was the one who wasn't supposed to die. I mean, he'd have lost his mind if Harold died -- we've seen it, he goes laser-focused and does whatever he has to do to either find or avenge him. But he would understand *why* someone would go after Harold. And Fusco, well, he'd been a bad guy for a long time, he knows the score. (And he *does*. Seriously, I love him so much.) And Reese himself, well, he's done a lot of bad things, and no amount of atoning is going to make up for that.
But Carter stayed on the (mostly) clean side of things her whole life. She was one of the real good guys. So when she died in the alley, Reese's butterfly bandages all got ripped right off. Because it was a senseless death; it was one they should have been able to prevent (except they were being IDIOTS argh okay moving on). It was one *he* should have been able to prevent.
So there he is, with the fantasy he hadn't even realized he'd built up in his head all ripped away: there is no safety, they can't help everyone, good people die right in front of your eyes. And he goes back to where he was when Harold found him: hopeless, despairing, and really really angry. And he takes off to wallow in a giant pity party, refusing to acknowledge that anyone else's feelings really matter at all.
And that really kinda works for me. I think he'll pull out of it; I think he's made the first steps, thanks in large part to Fusco, with his wonderfully pissy "yeah that's right, tough guy, I'm two years sober thanks to YOU. You DO make a difference. Suck on THAT for a while, jackass!" (I love him SO MUCH); and then the cathartic throwdown where Fusco knew perfectly well he was going to get the crap beat out of him and that's okay, he knows how to take a beating, especially in a good cause; and then the bit in the jail where Fusco literally locked himself up with Reese to give him a good talking to, and then walked out when he was done because hah, of course Fusco wasn't locked up (so, so, SO MUCH LOVE).
Of course it would be Harold in danger that would pull Reese back, and I'm also okay with him still wallowing away and refusing to stay.
Okay, so at that point the ep had been airing for half an hour and I couldn't take it and had to go watch. So now I am caught up to 3x13 and will be talking about that, too.
Okay, now that one made me happy, especially the end. ♥ And it all still makes sense to me in terms of John's character, in particular -- but also I wanted to say that I completely respect Harold's respecting of John's decision, because of course he would. He manipulated John into joining up at first, but after that it was totally John's decision.
(And of course the Machine learns well, and basically pulls a Harold to get John back on board. ... er, no pun intended, sorry.)
It's still really hard for John to trust -- although really, his sudden thing about being angry at being shut out from the Machine is weird, but I can go with it as the thing he decided to funnel all his frustration and anger into.
I liked the flight attendant a lot (even though she probably should have called the pilot 15 minutes into this flight *handwave*), and I was cracking up at John's "... more whiskey. neat" as the answer to all life's little problems. It really was the perfect way to remind him that, y'know, he *likes* helping people, he's good at it, he doesn't want to be the guy walking around sticking people with coagulants on planes so they'll get blood clots and die. Even if he is still the guy who'll buzz a stun belt to get answers.
I also liked the quiet little implication that he and the attendant spent the night together having a good time; I really like that we never get absolute confirmation that John's having friendly sex with people, but that the notion is there, and it really does seem *friendly*, which is awesome.
But mostly I loved that scene at the end, with Finch being so careful not to breach John's boundaries and John leaning forward all damp-eyed and intense and wanting a suit to wear again. *happy sigh* And the look on Harold's face! <3 <3 Not to mention Harold openly inviting John to go visit an exhibit that reminds him of Grace, which. Good heavens.
It's a reset button of sorts, but one that works for me; they're back to working together, but on a much stronger, more equal footing now, not spying on each other but talking to each other. Harold's not just handing John suits; he's bringing him to his tailor so they can pick one out together.
And beyond that, it's fascinating that the Machine has decided that it doesn't need to go through Finch, but is perfectly prepared to manipulate the world to get one of its assets in the right place at the right time. (It's also clear that the Machine doesn't believe in resignations, which... could get dicey.)
Anyway. This is a little late to help with anyone else's rowing, since basically the show is solidly back on board with John and Harold being all about each other again.
And that's where I stopped typing last week; god only knows why I didn't hit "post". But since I didn't, I'll natter on a bit to add: the ret-conning of the romance is now really easy, because there's just been no mention of it, at all. Until or unless it gets brought back up, it is 100% easy to read all of John's reaction as a shattering of the careful scaffolding he'd built up and thought was made up of solid walls, and a spiral down into his old despair and hopelessness, at the loss of a dear friend and comrade. Especially since everyone else is telling him flat-out "you're not the only one who suffered a loss, here. Open your eyes, look around, this is a shared grief." So yay for that, and I will -- I *am* -- totally on board with that characterization.
(Although I feel really bad for the Carter/Reese shippers, because seriously show come ON. You hand them that, then yank it away, then go la la la and never mention it again? This is why it's almost always better that your ship never, ever become remotely canon, no matter what it is.)
I'm braced a little against the day they yank that rug back out from under my feet, but, y'know. With that last scene last week, the rowing is easing up, and I've put up a tiny little sail to catch the wind to help out...
The whole (retconned) thing works as a re-establishing of the relationship on a more even footing, for me. Finch and Reese aren't employer and employee anymore, they're partners who have consciously, deliberately chosen to work together as a team.
And hah, as a telling point, when I was writing up the first part of this, I wasn't feeling like I could use this icon, but now I totally can. <3
no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 03:07 am (UTC)I have to admit, my own main obstacle is just, Carter's death and the way they did it has made me so angry at the WRITERS that I am finding it really hard to actually watch the episodes as a viewer -- I am seeing through the episode to the writers beneath and just wanting to throttle them so much, and it makes it really hard to enjoy even the BEWILDERINGLY slashy Roman Holiday they have sent Harold and John off to have. O__o
no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 03:46 am (UTC)That being said, I can't even go near the Jossspace in my head because I'm realizing reading your post that what makes me angrier even is that he didn't treat her as a fallen comrade - a cop! - he treated her like Jessica. That's what's wrong with that there. Not--don't get me wrong, I could ship those guys in other circumstances, but I could ship them BECAUSE he respects her as a badass cop. Not becuase it lets us play "all the women I love dieeeee" all over again. I was never so happy as when Lionel beat the shit out of him. I could have watched a whole show about that! :D
But I'm happy to see him back with Harold--and OMG OMG did you see HAROLD'S FACE? Lighting up does not even. does. not. even. begin to cover it.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 03:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 12:22 pm (UTC)And yes, it may be problematic that the Machine doesn't respect resignations (it really wasn't brought up with any boundaries, y'know?) though I'm quite glad it didn't respect John's. :)
no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 03:51 pm (UTC)And yay for friendly sex! I've adored the FWB thing that John and Zoe had/have/whatever.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 04:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-22 05:26 pm (UTC)I just no longer trust the showrunners as much as I once did.