arduinna: a tarot-card version of Linus from Peanuts, carrying a lamp as The Hermit (Default)
[personal profile] arduinna
(If you want to link to these and keep the cut tags intact for people, link to my front page or link to this archive page)

(disclaimer in part 1)

Finding fandom


It wasn't easy to stumble over fandom in the 1990s if you didn't have a specific interest in it. Which doesn't mean it was hard to find!

But fandom wasn't being talked about on tv, or in random newspaper/magazine articles, or being linked to off mainstream sites. Media companies weren't hosting forums to try to corral people's fannishness into appropriate venues, where like-minded people could easily find each other and link off to other more fannish sites; mostly TPTB were sending C&Ds to people who posted pictures of their show, and being very wary of this whole "world wide web" thing that was taking control away from them.


(source: a 1997 cache of the page X-File Fan Fiction Links, found on Wayback If you click that link, it will look different than my image; I made my browser's background black before I took the screenshot, so it would look the way it did originally. There were an awful lot of black-background XF sites around then...)

Most fans were careful never to publicly link back to (or even mention) fan sites, to protect each other. If there was a newspaper article about us somewhere, it got talked about and linked (or quoted, if it wasn't online) all over the place, as something rare and strange and worrying (journalists almost always got it wrong, for one thing).

(Fifteen years later, I still twitch when I see people linking to archives or vid sites or individual fanworks in public forums, particularly media-controlled forums. The instinct to hide was instilled that strongly.)

And really, everything, not just fandom, was out of sight in the very early days. The web was brand new, small, and scattered, and consisted of lots of little pockets of interest that weren't very well connected. Search engines were in their infancy, as well, and not everything was indexed.

But pretty much, all you had to do was look around on the web or Usenet for your preferred source's title, and you would manage to find something that would point you in the right direction.

Online services companies

I never really used any of these services, so these were outside my realm of experience, but hunting around for links for this post reminded me of them. AOL, Prodigy, GeNIE, CompuServe, even Microsoft Network (?? I have no idea, I don't remember that at all), all had various fan sections where you could find like-minded people. These could include files, message boards, chats, etc.

Here's a list of online services with Due South content as of 1999.

I'm pretty sure that in all of those cases, though, you were siloed into that one area; you could only interact with other people on the same service.


Links pages

The early web was much less search-based and much more links-based; with search engines only moderately useful, you depended on people linking to things, and fandom took that to heart and linked everything it could find.

Some links pages were found on personal websites that included a lot of other things; some were standalone links pages specifically designed to be a portal to a particuar fandom.

One was a standalone site started up in 1996 and designed to be a portal to all of fandom, and all of fandom owed it a huge debt: KS Nicholas's Fandom on the Net / Fan Fiction on the Net. She was such a godsend to fandom in the mid-to-late 90s, I can't even tell you.

Mega site: Fandom / Fan Fiction on the Net

I think Karen's Fan Fiction on the Net links page was the first to appear. It included individual author pages, archives, etc. Over the next three years, this grew to mammoth proportions and was getting millions of hits, as one of the key gateways to fandom. Everyone used her site; people would send her links to their pages to be added, because it was the single best way to make sure people would find your stuff. Search engines of the day were sort of iffy, but Karen never let you down.

By her last update in August 1999, the site covered a huge swath of fandom: tv, books, movies, anime & manga, comics & cartoons, soaps, and music; had separate sections for adult (= het) and slash (gen was the decided majority at the time in most fandoms); had specific sections for Star Trek (all versions, broken out by version and other things) and X-Files; broke down things like the ST, XF, and Slash pages into even smaller categories so you could find all sorts of things, from fic to mailing lists to review sites to zines to "articles", which were essays/meta about slash and fandom in general.

The Fandom on the Net pages led to a treasure trove of non-fanfic sites: convention pages, official pages, fandom-specific information pages (episode guides, character listings, anything like that), Yahoo search directories, newsgroups, fan awards sites, fan directories, gaming, SFF, etc., and included a link to the web-based Fannish Email Directory.

This was all pre-Wikipedia and wikis in general, so fans created their own information sources, and some of them were hugely popular. (Writing this up, I've just rediscovered The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5, which I haunted for a while there. <3 )

The Wayback version of Karen's site is an astonishing snapshot of what fandom on the net looked like in the late 90s, and how we kept track of ourselves.

Medium sized, general-fandom links pages

The fandom-specific gateway links pages generally tried to give the most comprehensive set of links possible to a fandom; they often linked to other links pages in the same fandom, to help cover any holes.

The links would cover everything: author pages, archives, newsgroups, drinking games, fan clubs, mailing lists, resource pages -- if it was related to the fandom, even just by way of a crossover, it would probably get included.

Here's a gigantic screenshot of an X-Files links page -- click through the picture for the scrollable version. (The Wayback archived version lost the black background, so it's hard to see the links on the page itself now.) It's worth checking it out, to see how varied everything was, and how complete. (I recognize a lot of those author names, and I was never even all that involved in X-Files fandom...)


(source: a 1997 cache of the page X-File Fan Fiction Links, found on Wayback Same as before, I made my browser background black for this shot.)

If you notice a lack of art and vids there, it's because in the mid-90s there was little art and no vids up online. Fan artists were still mostly sending their art to zines and art shows, and it was the late 90s to early 2000s before there started to be a strong fanart web presence; and vidders were distributing vids on VHS tapes, and didn't start vidding digitally in any real numbers until the early 2000s (and even then, slow connections and crappy compression meant a lot of vidders didn't want to post their work online immediately).

The exception to the comprehensive-links idea here is the gen|het|slash divide; a lot of gen fans simply wouldn't link to slash materials or information in the mid-90s, and sometimes not to adult het, either, even on pages meant to be gateways. In return, other links pages would have only slash-related links on them, as a way to make sure people could find the slash, on the theory that there were already gen-heavy links pages out there.

Smaller, more personal links pages

The smaller pages were more curated, generally; where Karen would add anything anyone sent her, and fandom-wide pages tried to cover an entire fandom, a person's individual links page was often to pages that she personally liked, so it functioned as a recs page for sites, pretty much -- tiny little goldmines if you found someone whose tastes overlapped yours.

They linked to many of the same categories as the larger pages, but only their favorites. Ah, here we go -- I was looking for something else, and stumbled over this Links page, last updated in 2001 -- this is a great look at a curated, thorough links list.

So really, by the late 90s, it was very easy to find fandom in general, and new fandoms if you wanted more than the one you started with. You just had to be willing to look. Fans everywhere were doing the work of laying trails for you to follow with as little effort as possible.

Recs pages

There were also actual recs pages, to point you at good stories to read; some of the best known multi-fandom recs pages in my end of fandom in the mid-late 90s were [personal profile] torch's recommendations (alas, now gone, it looks like - that's what I was looking for when I hit Kestrelsan's links page) and All Jewels Have Flaws, [personal profile] sherrold's recs page. A few years later, Polyamorous Recs joined the fray, and became a go-to recs page for a lot of fandom; it's still going strong today.


Webrings

Anyone could add their site to a webring, which were set up along topic lines, usually. Once you hit one site on a webring, you could navigate through all the other sites by clicking "next" as you went. Multi-fannish sites could have mutiple webrings on them, so you could find all sorts of things.


Fanlistings

I admit, I never quite got the point of these, but you could add your name to a web-based fanlisting for a show or character or actor, and then you'd be on the list of fans. Some included mailto links for emailing members, or website links, so you could contact people or go look at their sites if you wanted. Lots of people loved these.


Where the fans were talking


Discussion was the primary function of fandom in the 90s, at least in my corners of it; fanfic was great and got devoured, but it was secondary to talking about the show. (Although for that matter, we also talked about the fanfic.) While there were people who only wanted the fic and ignored the discussions, there were also people who only wanted the discussions and ignored the fic. And where today someone watching an episode might think "I wonder what would have happened if he'd accepted the coffee?" and write a 600-word snippet about it, back in the day they were as likely to post the question to their preferred discussion place and start a conversation about it that could last for days. (Or vanish without a ripple. You never knew.)

So fans were talking all over the place, and there was a good chance you could find a format that worked for you; if you didn't want to talk, you could lurk and watch other people talking. Like anything else, it was 5-15% of the people doing the talking in most places, while everyone else lurked.

Newsgroups

Newsgroups were the easiest thing to find, if you had a newsreader and if your ISP or workplace allowed the alt.* or rec.* levels of Usenet. Newsgroups were very active during the 90s, and there was a newsgroup for practically anything you could think of, with more being added all the time. By the mid-to-late 90s the open nature of newsgroups meant they were getting bombarded with spam, though, so moderated newsgroups (like ASCEM -- still kicking, btw) started showing up, and people were shifting more to mailing lists, which had far less spam on them.

If you didn't have Usenet access or weren't comfortable navigating it, that left the web. You had to actively search for the particular show (or whatever) title you were interested in, and be willing to do a little link-hopping in some cases. But once you did that, fandom was right there; we were hiding, but we were hiding in plain sight.


Mailing lists

Relatively easy to find if you went looking, especially after 1997/98, and also very active; you could find out about them on newsgroups, on fan pages, etc. Once you found one, it was pretty easy to find more.

Most discussion lists had associated fiction lists, sometimes more than one -- if there was more than one, they were split into gen and adult, usually. Traditionally, "adult" meant what we now call "het"; some adult lists were strictly no-slash-allowed, so sometimes you'd wind up with a gen fic list, a het fic list, and a slash fic list. The slash fic list usually covered all ratings, because G- or PG-rated slash wouldn't be allowed on the gen list, even though het of that rating would be allowed there. On the one hand, that sucked. On the other hand, if you were a slash fan who wasn't interested in gen or het at all, it made it fabulously easy to get your hands on just the fic you wanted, while het fans had to wade through all the gen to get to the non-smutty het romance stories.

So lists were a stable, active way to get a steady stream of both conversation and fanfic. By 1997 or so (maybe earlier?), at least on the slash end of things, there were even multi-fandom fic lists that weren't associated with specific fandoms, which was a good way to get rarer things (the lists were called things like Rareslash, Allslash, etc.). These came along with the advent of free mailing lists from Onelist, eGroups, Topica, etc.


Message boards

I was never particularly involved in message board/forum-based fandom, but it was definitely around and active in the 90s.


IRC and other forms of chat

IRC was huge in the part of fandom I was in; not everyone participated, of course, but many fandoms had their own IRC channels set up that you could go into almost any time to find people hanging out, or set up regular chats in their fandom channel on a schedule. I met some of my first fannish friends in a Forever Knight IRC channel; we eventually broke off into a private channel, where we hung out for years. Other people did the same, keeping the main fandom channel more generally chatty so it didn't get overwhelmed with one particular group.

It's still one of the primary ways I stay in touch with people; I'm on an IRC server most days to hang out with folks, at least a little.

The main alternative to IRC chats were AOL chats; I actually paid for an AOL account for years just so I could attend various AOL chats and have my own AIM handle to do one-on-one chatting with people. Fandoms set up their own AOL chats, with scheduled times and rooms (X-Files did this more than any other fandom I was in; I remember those XF slash chats!).

TPTB also used chats to connect with fans; you couldn't ask questions directly, but you could /msg your questions/comments to the chat moderator, who would paste them in to keep the chat moving along in order. In my admittedly hazy memory (I never went to the chats, as I have no interest in interacting with TPTB), eventually AOL chats became the true norm for this, but at one point IRC was also used. This is a transcript of a May, 1996 IRC chat with Paul Gross and David Marciano from Due South, for example.


Personal websites and archives for essays and reviews

This doesn't quite count as discussion, but essays and reviews were a way of participating in a broader fannish discussion, and fans wrote a fair number of essays in the 90s -- they'd be called meta today.

In 1999 the Fanfic Symposium started up as a way to centralize and archive some of these, and there's some fantastic stuff there. But there's a lot more tucked away on people's individual pages like little gems.

They would get read because people made a habit of visiting author's sites to check for updates, so new stuff didn't go unnoticed.


Where the fans were reading fanfic


To start with, if you were on newsgroups, mailing lists, or message boards, you were very probably reading fanfic there as well, either mixed in with regular discussion or on separate fic-specific groups/lists/boards.

Beyond that, the two main ways to find fanfic was on archives and on personal web sites.

Archives

Lots of fans just hung out on archives, keeping up with all the new fiction and never really interacting one-on-one with other fans. It was a really low-stress, low-social-anxiety way of participating. But if you wanted to, you could often use an archive as a gateway to other parts of fandom, either through link lists on the archive itself, or by following links or information trails in the stories posted (e.g., "Over on the DSouth-L list they were talking about the Hat of Invulnerability, and this story popped into my head" -- boom, you had a list name, and could find the list from that.)

You could find a lot of the fanfic on archives, but not all of it. Even in fandoms where the default was for archivists to take stories off the newsgroup or mailing list and archive them, some authors refused. Some were leery of the web's permanence and visibility and refused to have their work put up, preferring to post only to more protected newsgroups and mailing lists (this was before we knew that newsgroups were forever). Others were fine with web-posting but wanted the control of their own websites, or posted in one archive but not another. But gradually it became increasingly common to let your work be archived, so by the late 90s they were ubiquitous and relatively complete.

A very brief, probably very incomplete, possibly very incorrect history of archives

Archives were a spotty proposition in the very early days. The earliest archives were FTP sites, where stories sent to Usenet or mailing lists would get stored for people to download. You'd get the login information from your list information message, and use your FTP client to go to the ftp site and grab as much fiction as you could at a time - completely blind. You had no idea what you were getting. (You could also get to the ftp site via your browser, but you still didn't know what you were getting, and you would have to download stories one by one by clicking links, rather than grabbing a bunch at a time.)

Even the filenames wouldn't be much help, as computers at the time could only handle file names of 8 characters plus the extension. So say you had a story called Harlequin Airs. Your file name would be "harlequi.txt", or maybe "harlairs.txt", or "hrlqnair.txt".

Some fandoms also had web-based archives, and by the mid-90s these were increasingly common, and FTP archives were being phased out, although for several years they existed side by side.


(source: a 1997 cache of the page X-File Fan Fiction Links, found on Wayback Same as before; I made my browser's background black before I took the screenshot.)

You can see there that some FTP archives were mirrors of web-based archives as late as 1997, at least; others were the archives for fanfic newsgroups; others archived mailing-list stories.

Web archives were originally all hand-coded, and the stories were in .txt files, not html (although they might be sitting on top of an html background, which was very spiffy indeed). Archivists would make an html front page(s), with lists of the linked stories, and you'd click through to the text, which more often than not looked exactly like an email, because the archivist would take the emails that went to the fic list, copy them into txt files, and upload them as is.

How the archive was set up depended on the archivist; sometimes it was just a list of stories, sometimes you had "stories by author" and "stories by title", sometimes you had categories. Sometimes you had all of that and more, with every story indexed in multiple ways so you could find it no matter what (♥ DS Archive ♥).



Almost every fandom had an archive somewhere, even just a tiny page on someone's personal site that had a dozen stories on it. Fans wanted central places to go find all the stories; we all had bookmarks for people's individual pages (old-fashioned bookmarks, in our browsers, not able to sync across anything), but link-rot was rampant as people changes ISPs and hosts and names and site layouts (oh my GOD the people who just kept revamping their sites and changing their folder structures, so you had to re-drill through their site any time you wanted to find anything, argh.) Sometimes the moving got so ridiculous that you'd link-hop through three or four "I've moved! Please find me at [my new page link], and update your bookmarks!" for the same person until you finally found their current page.

So archives were key, and much-loved, even if they were tiny or ugly. (They also traded hands pretty regularly, and moved locations as one archivist burned out or moved on, and another took over.)

The bigger archives were known outside of their own fandoms, and one in particular, Gossamer, was known pretty much everywhere. It was fandom's "too big to fail" archive, which meant that when it looked like it was going to have to shut down, fandom heard about it, and worried. Repeatedly.


(source: a 1997 cache of the page X-File Fan Fiction Links, found on Wayback Same as before, I made my browser background black for this shot.)

In 1997, archives began to undergo a sea change with the arrival of the Automated Archive software written by Naomi Novik. It was the first time ever that authors could upload their own stories; no more waiting in a queue for the archivist to have time to process the backlog of stories. Amazingly, you could even send stories to a list just by using the AA software -- you'd check a box for what list you wanted your story sent to, and after you hit submit, the archive would have a copy and the mailing list would be sent a copy, properly broken out into as many parts as needed to accommodate the list-length limits.

When this first started up, there was some protest at the fact that suddenly every story that got sent to a list included standardized header content, some of which could be considered spoilers. Many authors preferred not to give any information about their stories, and many readers preferred not to see any information before reading. So after some discussion about how to accommodate everyone, the result was the "Part 0" post, which included the header information and a link back to the archived version of the story, but none of the story itself, which started right up in the Part 1 post.

It also helped standardize story subject lines, which had been entirely up to the poster to decide before, with fairly inconsistent results.

On the reader end of things, suddenly archives could be searchable, across multiple criteria -- you could pick categories to include or exclude, which in those heady days of archives that had hundreds of stories was a blessing.

And then EFiction came along, also automated, with a different interface and different search capabilities. I never liked it as much personally, but it was (and is) very popular, and kept the trend of automation going.


Personal webpages

Also called home pages, back in the day, and a prime source for fannish goodies. Fans not only put up their own stories (and sometimes artwork), they linked to everything that interested them, from fanfic to resource sites to archives to official pages. They would add information about mailing lists, newsgroups, and chats; they'd put up fannish news and information to spread the word about important things. Lots of fans participated by surfing individual websites, too, as another very low-stress way of participating.


Newsletters

I wasn't entirely sure what section to put newsletters in, but they were explicitly for reading, so they're in the reading section.

These weren't the mainly-links-lists that journalling fandom calls newsletters; these were actual newsletters, with news, information, letters of comments, interviews, sometimes fanfic, sometimes fan poetry, etc., collated by one person (or a few people) and distributed on a regular basis, usually weekly or monthly.

I was on the e-version of a paper newsletter called Black Bean Soup in Starsky&Hutch fandom, and also got an extremely popular B5 newsletter called The Zocalo, which was a treasure trove of weekly information, particularly while the show was still airing.


Monofannish or Multifannish


There's a myth that it was hard to be multifannish in the heyday of mailing lists. It wasn't hard at all, even before Karen's site; it was just that if you didn't have multifannish tendencies to begin with, it was easy to be monofannish and just play in the one sandbox that interested you. You could ignore anything that wasn't relevant to your own personal interests.

Looking for more fandoms

But if you wanted more, you could find things by link-hopping around the web, just like you found your first fandom. Or if you didn't want to do that, you could even find more fandoms just by being on one list; that also got increasingly easy with every passing year. Even in 1994, though, I was finding out about other fannish lists almost as soon as I joined my first list; within the first year, I was on lists for at least four fandoms, and probably more.

  • Sometimes people cross-posted messages to multiple lists, so the other list addresses would appear in the To or CC field along with the list addy you were subbed to. With that information, you could figure out how to send a subscribe message, and join if you wanted; or you could email the poster and ask about the other list(s).

  • Sometimes people would mention a conversation happening on another list; all you had to do was write to them and say "hey, [list] sounds interesting, how can I subscribe?"

  • Sometimes people would announce a new list they'd started up, posting the info to other lists they were already on.

  • Sometimes people just flat-out asked onlist; "OT, sorry, but does anyone know of any lists for [Fandom]?"


From my initial discovery of the FK main list, I rapidly wound up on the FK fic list, the FK adult fic list, a private FK list, the Due South discussion list, the Due South fiction list, the DS "slash allowed" fic list, the DS adult fic list, the Highlander main list, the HL fic list, the adult HL fic list, half a dozen XF lists, 2 Starsky and Hutch lists, a secret B5 list, a secret Quantum Leap list, the KF:TLC main list and fic list...

And I knew about more lists than I was on.

By the late 90s, I was on dozens of lists across a dozen or more fandoms, multi-fandom lists (discussion and fic), and several private, invite-only lists that ranged from chatty hang-out lists of friends to lists devoted to critical commentary, and all points in between. Also by that point, most of the lists I was on had a slash bent to them; if you were a gen fan, you had even more options.

If you were a newsgroup-based fan, it was even easier; as long as you could read the alt.* or rec.* hierarchies, you could see most or all of the fannish newsgroups available to you. (Some ISPs blocked some newsgroups.)


Spreading the cross-fandom word

It is true that lists were largely self-contained, and that each had its own culture and flavor -- to the point that sometimes it was hard to adjust to a new list.

But lots of fans really were on multiple lists; the six degrees thing works in fandom, too. And if something important happened, the word spread pretty damn fast.

Stuff that transcended list lines (and "stay on topic" rules) were things like plagiarism (Jade is the one I remember best as being hunted down across many fandom mailing lists); articles about fandom that were making the rounds; corporate attempts to shut down fandom (like Fandom, Inc., which spread far and wide, wound up generating a legal defense fund and a mailing list devoted to keeping things like this from happening, and even wound up with a parody by Peter David called How the Grynch Stole Fandom), links to general essays about fandom (like "Pass the Crisco, Spock", for example, the and so forth.

If it was a perceived attack on fandom, word spread fast, and fandom rallied.

If it wasn't urgent, it spread more casually, but it spread.

Language spread, too, and some of it spread well enough to still be in use today. X-Files accounted for a bunch -- sending things like "shipper" (from "relationshipper", describing Mulder/Scully fans) into wider fandom for "fans of a het relationship", giving a balancing term to "slasher" for the first time. (Then fandom morphed it into "someone who likes any relationship" and left us with no term for "person who 'hets' characters". oh well.) And the thing of using an exclamation point between an adjective and a person's name? That's also from X-Files. XF started up the Estrogen Brigades as well, although those faded away after a while. For a while fandom almost picked up "noromo" for "no relationships", someone who preferred pure gen, but it didn't quite stick.

Phantom Menace brought in "chan" -- I've no idea where they got it, other than probably anime, but PM is the western-fandom vector, from the teacher-student Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan stories.

Mpreg spread across lists well before journals started up; so did domestic discipline. I'm tempted to claim Sentinel as the source for both of them, but I think I just happened to see them there first.

So fandom-wide trends, tropes, and discussions were fairly common, even on mailing lists.


part 1
part 3

Date: 2012-03-31 02:12 pm (UTC)
kass: Ray Kowalski ponders. (RayK thinking)
From: [personal profile] kass
♥ ♥ hearts;

Date: 2012-03-31 03:09 pm (UTC)
sanj: A woman sitting in space, in a lotus leaf (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanj
This is awesome. I love how you link to things I still think of as How Fans Should Behave back to the technology and the state of the subculture at the time I got into all this business.

And now I get why the zine folks were all Get These Damn Kids Off My Lawn, 15 years before I became a bitter old fandom doyenne. :P

Date: 2012-03-31 03:35 pm (UTC)
ratcreature: RL? What RL? RatCreature is a net addict.  (what rl?)
From: [personal profile] ratcreature
That's really interesting. I joined my first fandom mailing list in 1996 (after I briefly tried to join a DS mailing list via my brother's CompuServe mail account, but he didn't want to store the mail volume inbetween my visits), and was on a bunch of them, though mostly on Sentinel lists, though I read fic on some others, but I never was invited by anyone to join any "secret lists" or even had any idea of their existence until way later when I read some meta piece or other about cliquishness. I guess that's where the secret part comes in.

But then I had never many one-on-one conversations while in mailing list fandom, maybe because neither IRC nor instant messaging are something I enjoy particularly to communicate.

Date: 2012-04-01 06:24 pm (UTC)
ratcreature: RL? What RL? RatCreature is a net addict.  (what rl?)
From: [personal profile] ratcreature
I never got many longer one-on-one conversations started when I was on mailing lists. Maybe because then it still took me much longer to write in English. I didn't have yet the years of internet and fandom practice. So every reply took much longer to write, and early on there weren't online dictionaries around then either, so I was sitting there with the paper one, and of course that regularly failed with slang or the worst really brand names and such.

That was probably part of why I didn't take to IRC either, because the conversation was just moving too fast to carefully reply.

Date: 2012-03-31 03:46 pm (UTC)
twistedchick: watercolor painting of coffee cup on wood table (Default)
From: [personal profile] twistedchick
This is a masterful summary.

A couple of small things from my own experience:

I bought a 486 Zenith PC with a 40 Meg hard drive and two floppy disk drive in 1987; it was the biggest thing I could find at the time. For a long time, skating around Usenet, I didn't see a lot of media fandom. I could find rec.arts.sf, but the discussions there tended to be about books, not much about movies. Lots of gossip, not much fannish content. For fannish content of any kind you had to find the right bulletin board, which took a lot of word-of-mouth since posting links wasn't that common. Fandom was hidden.

But I found a few people on bulletin boards, and then followed them to mailing lists, where discussion ruled. All my early Sentinel and La Femme Nikita stories were posted to mailing lists. Then there was Blogger, which was okay for writing but abysmal for discussion since its commenting functionality was lousy -- no tiered comments, only straight lines, like Google+. Then LJ, and the other journals -- GJ, Blurty (not so big), IJ and Dreamwidth.

But I'm one of the people who was, somewhat peripherally, in media fandom in the 1970s, helping friends staple mimeo copies of K/S zines in their dorm room, and finding media fandom-related events at small SF cons. It's kind of amazing to think how it has all developed and changed.

Date: 2012-04-02 04:13 am (UTC)
twistedchick: watercolor painting of coffee cup on wood table (Default)
From: [personal profile] twistedchick
I'm not so sure about Usenet - didn't it go away last year?

Date: 2012-04-03 08:22 pm (UTC)
eviltammy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eviltammy
I'm not sure anything other than total destruction of the internet could take down alt.callahans and probably not even that.

Date: 2012-03-31 05:21 pm (UTC)
dorinda: James West and Artemus Gordon (Wild Wild West) gazing at each other. (jim&artie)
From: [personal profile] dorinda
Oh, man, Fan Fiction on the Net! FLASHBACK CITY. I lived for that site, web-wise.

I think anyone familiar with early web fandom, upon seeing my own webpage, will get a sense of where I came from. *g* I imprinted on multi-fandom author pages just like it (often linked from KS Nicholas!), which sometimes even had little pictures of the guys to show you who they were writing about. So now I still do it, because it's my tiny fledgling html knowledge showing an homage. :D

Date: 2012-03-31 09:45 pm (UTC)
klia: (!)
From: [personal profile] klia
Wow, I had no idea I'd been so insular. I don't remember ever hearing about KS Nicholas or her contributions, and had no idea Naomi wrote the first automated archiving software.

I'm so glad you wrote all of this!

Date: 2012-03-31 10:32 pm (UTC)
princessofgeeks: (Default)
From: [personal profile] princessofgeeks
utterly fascinating. thank you so much.

Date: 2012-03-31 11:19 pm (UTC)
eviltammy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eviltammy
I met some of my first fannish friends in a Forever Knight IRC channel; we eventually broke off into a private channel, where we hung out for years.

[waves]

Loving this - feeling very nostalgic. And remembering staying after work for hours to use the computer. Even after the library had closed and everyone had left. And coming in on my days off to play.

And we were young and could stay up half the night chatting and go to work fine the next day :)

Date: 2012-04-01 03:45 am (UTC)
ithildin: (Forever Knight - Forever)
From: [personal profile] ithildin
I just told Nin that M wrote a THREE PART THESIS on early fandom, and she's cackling.

I'm up to part two, and boy, do I feel old LOL. Up all night on IRC, email lists, post limits on email lists... Ahhh... fandom in the 90s - it's how I got Nin.

Now we're reminiscing.

Date: 2012-04-01 03:53 am (UTC)
ninjababe: (who-blink)
From: [personal profile] ninjababe
This is making me cackle...

And, remember the 'good ol' days'...

Staying up to 1230am Central Time (The parental units forced bedtime), chatting on IRC...

Then, getting up at 530am to go to work...

I would *never* be able to do that now. Once a week, maybe... But, every night? Nope... Not gonna happen!

Date: 2012-04-02 01:54 am (UTC)
eviltammy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eviltammy
Once a week - on Friday or Saturday night! And then we could sleep late the next day :)

Date: 2012-04-01 02:00 pm (UTC)
corilannam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] corilannam
This was so much fun to read!

Oh, Gossamer! I spent so, so many hours there, often spending the entire night in the university computer lab and walking home to change clothes in the early morning light. At one point, I had literally read every story on it, until it exploded out of reach of even my reading ambitions.

Huh, I don't think I ever realized that Naomi's AA software could post to lists for you (or I forgot because I never used it for that). I think by the time I started actually writing, the Part 0 hand-coded posts were already normal, and it was just a matter of learning how many text pages you could fit into each email part without it bouncing.

I still kind of miss lists and the big irc chats. Mailing lists used to be such a big deal because they were expensive to run unless you had free access to a listserv (usually at a university). I remember when Yahoo!Groups came around it was such a big thing because then anyone could create a list for anything -- and did, leading to a lot of debate over the "fracturing" of fandom.

I'm fairly sure "shipper" started on XF-Romantics (I was one of the first, if not the first, to use it just because typing takes energy and "relationshipper" was such a long, awkward word. It also used to be a bit of an insult). "Chan" in TPM did come from anime - someone had heard the term and it got snapped up and quickly adapted to fit what some of us were writing, though it wasn't really accurate. Wow, what a huge controversy that was in TPM fandom at the time, to the point that discussion of "chan" had to be banned from the mailing list and the stories themselves weren't archived on the main MA site. Is this term still in use anywhere? I mostly see people saying "underage" now, and it's no longer considered a big deal unless you have a personal squick.

Date: 2012-04-02 09:11 am (UTC)
torch: legs of a pinup girl, red high heels (Default)
From: [personal profile] torch
Wasn't there an Obi-Chan archive? I got the impression that the term chan moved on from TPM into HP fandom and mutated into a new definition that I would've called shota/loli, but I don't know if anyone's using it -- either version -- these days. I do have a vague impression that I saw it in use just recently, but that could mean anytime within the past five years, given my memory...

Date: 2012-04-03 12:03 am (UTC)
corilannam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] corilannam
Yeah, I think Pumpkin was archiving all the Obi-chan stories separately for a while, though I don't think that's still around. Sounds like the HP definition is closer to what the original term was supposed to mean (at least as it was explained to me) - TPM rarely went below the age of 16.

Date: 2012-04-03 07:47 pm (UTC)
torch: legs of a pinup girl, red high heels (Default)
From: [personal profile] torch
Okay, now I'm intrigued, because it looks to me like we have totally different perceptions of the term chan, though we were in the same place at the same time, virtually. To me, chan was stories about an underage Obi-Wan, for the US definition of under 18, but not a prepubescent child. That was how I understood it, anyway. And then there was the discussion about whether chan always meant this oh-look-puberty character having sex with an older person, or if two underage characters together was chan. I also got the impression that when the term moved to HP, chan was used for stories that featured sex with prepubescent children, but I never investigated that very closely. What was your view of the whole thing? :)

Date: 2012-04-03 12:17 am (UTC)
corilannam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] corilannam
Yes, the main Yuletide chat is much too overwhelming for me. I prefer smaller chats, but I do miss the slightly larger fangroup chats as a way to ease into a fandom and get to know people better than you really can on list/LJ/whatever. Plus, so many of the smaller chats I loved disappeared or moved.

I think what I miss about lists is the sense of that whole fandom conversation. Everyone was in the same place at the same time and could branch off from there, rather than having to individually subscribe to every other fan. Like you said in one of the posts, that whole fandom experience is something we'll probably never have again.

Oh, interesting! I was never in TPM; I just knew who some of the authors were, and that chan was a growing segment of the fic. I always figured if it was widespread enough that the nickname for the genre made it out of TPM into wider fandom, it must have been bigger (than it apparently was).

Nope, it was never very big - just loud! I would be surprised if there had been more than two dozen chan stories in all of TPM, at least during the active years, amongst the over 3,000 other stories on the archive. However, quite a few people migrated directly from TPM to HP, and HP had much more use for the term!

Hmm, I'm trying to remember if chan also referred to relationships between two underage Jedi in TPM. It seems to me that it did (though admittedly, most of the fic was Qui-Gon/Obi-Chan, I vaguely remember an Obi-Wan/Bruck or two).

Date: 2012-04-01 05:11 pm (UTC)
katie_m: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katie_m
Discussion was the primary function of fandom in the 90s, at least in my corners of it; fanfic was great and got devoured, but it was secondary to talking about the show.

Man, I miss that.

Date: 2012-04-08 05:45 pm (UTC)
loreleif: (Default)
From: [personal profile] loreleif
I feel the same. I still really miss mailing lists some days. And IRC! I've changed computers so many times, I don't even remember where everyone is. :(

And it's really weird to be reading a lot in a fandom but not have anyone to really discuss it with because I don't know where the fandom is. It's so decentralized these days.

Meh, I feel old!

Date: 2012-04-01 10:11 pm (UTC)
ithildin: (Holby - Amused)
From: [personal profile] ithildin
I still hate top replies on emails. For the most part, I still respond to email the correct old way, responding under each part I have something to say on, and deleting the rest.

I remember when mashups started - I think we blame Buffy fandom for that, yes? Spuffy,? Seriously? Yeah, I'm having a definite 'get off my lawn!!!' moment here [g] The present day one that makes my toes curl is Pepperony in Iron Man fandom [shudders].

And I must add, I love having something to comment with abandon on!

ETA: Must share this - the three of us at Syndicon East in 1997.
Edited Date: 2012-04-01 10:33 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-04-02 02:20 am (UTC)
amaresu: Sapphire and Steel from the opening (Default)
From: [personal profile] amaresu
Oh, Webrings. They were the best. I was so sad when they went out of style. I loved Webrings so much.

And I think we were on all the same Highlander mailing lists. Although I was a big lurker in that fandom.

Date: 2012-04-02 02:55 am (UTC)
lydiabell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lydiabell
Ahahahaha, I wonder if you and I were on the same secret B5 list. :D

Date: 2012-04-02 03:38 am (UTC)
cellia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cellia
Oh man, so many memories! The KS Nicholas's Fan Fiction page made me instantly flashback to many many wasted happy hours of my youth. :D

For anime fans there was a site called "anipike" that served basically the same function of indexing links (still around, but looks very different now).

"Chan" is definitely from anime fandom. I would have guessed it actually came in from Harry Potter underage things (where I 1st encountered it) before Phantom Menace, but don't know if I could prove it.

Date: 2012-04-02 06:54 pm (UTC)
fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (Default)
From: [personal profile] fox
I don't think you could prove it, no; TPM was an ideal entry for the use of "-chan" as a suffix, because before it was pronounced like the first syllable of "channel", it had the same vowel as the second half of Obi-Wan's name, so Obi-Chan was both descriptive and a pun. The perfect storm. (Also, and I don't actually have a cite for this, while the first Harry Potter book was published in 1997 and TPM didn't hit theaters until 1999, is it not the case that HP fandom didn't really take off until Prisoner of Azkaban in ... huh, also 1999, it turns out. Good summer. But TPM was a couple of months ahead, it appears. :-) Never mind, maybe they both lit up at the same time? But I stand by my explanation of the first use of "-chan".)

Date: 2012-04-03 01:43 am (UTC)
cellia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cellia
I never knew about the Obi-Chan pun! Hee! Oh fandom. Thank you.

I had minimal exposure to TPM fandom, but was on Harry Potter MLs before the 1st movie ever came out, so I definitely have a slightly skewed view (and a fuzzy memory for what happened when). It's very possible I'm completely wrong!

Date: 2012-04-03 02:08 am (UTC)
cellia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cellia
I feel like Harry Potter had more overlap with anime fandom than with Phantom Menace fandom (nb: I could also be wrong about this too, HP fandom got very large), but then again, it only takes a few fans with something catchy to make something spread, so I really have no idea in the end!

I remember Anipike was very like KS Nicholas's page. Just links by series and interest (fic, art, fansubs, shopping etc). I was surprised to see it still there. Oh, they've archived their old site! http://classic.anipike.com/ looks basically exactly like the site I visited all the time in the late 1990s.

Date: 2012-04-02 08:21 am (UTC)
suzvoy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzvoy
Fanfiction on the Net <3333333 Oh, that brings back some happy, happy memories, trawling that site for something to read.

eGroups...alt.startrek.creative...

*nostalgic*

I still remember my compuserve e-mail! 101757,2744@compuserve.com

And the ENORMOUS BILL we got after the first time we tried AOL...eeeek!

Date: 2012-04-03 01:54 pm (UTC)
jenab: (fandom-general)
From: [personal profile] jenab
This is bringing up so many memories of when I started out in fandom. Especially Karen's Fan Fiction site.

Date: 2012-04-04 01:47 pm (UTC)
heresluck: (x-files)
From: [personal profile] heresluck
Oh wow -- this is awesome. I wandered into fandom at the tail end of the period you're describing (early 2000, when I was unemployed and living in Seattle with a bunch of computer programmers who had a T1 line because they worked out of the extra bedroom). FX started re-running X-Files from the beginning and I went from a casual watcher to a fan, and suddenly all the time I didn't spend hunting through Napster I spent on The Annotated X-Files site and Gossamer. Heh.

Then I moved out and went back to living in my own place (which was awesome) with a 56k dial-up connection (which was... frustrating). Heh.

Date: 2012-04-10 12:34 am (UTC)
hebethen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hebethen
Whoa, wait, you mean people don't use "homepage" anymore? I only got on the internet... a decade ago, it can't have gone out already?

"No romo", pff.
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